How sure are you that those are eyewitness accounts. In opposition to this you may place the fruits of others and their understanding of God. Dave Burbank Such as I would imagine the Eastern Orthodox who are known for such practice and perspective on faith. But, that we ourselves interact, relate, care, love is even more important. Id suggest that this is even true among the authors of Scripture and with general trends by the centuries as well as across Fowlers stages of faith as well as by denomination and religion. Thanks for posting this. This is very simple. Many people arrive at different conclusions (that is fine) and see things differently doubt is a complex subject that will not fully be flushed out in this conversation. Edit. People who call others incredibly stupid and foolish beyond measure for not sharing their own religious positions ought to take a look in the mirror. Not if hes using evidence in the sense Ive advocated for in this thread Pete. Edward, you assume that people cant hold doubt while maintaining a vibrant Christian faith that is simply not true. When asked, do you believe God exists?, I cant help but response with, what do you mean by God?'. But in the formerit seemssome individuals cannot ask the does God exist? question without deeply wondering about which God?? However, there are many Christians in our country who also want to enforce solely biblical beliefs here too. After I became more of a questioner, and more curious about a lot of things I no longer experienced such manic-depression. Im more so now in my life in the former group of people. Perhaps the thing that could hold rationality, mysticism, intuition, etc all together is love- as a way of knowing. just try it i bet you gain their trust better. His research and teaching focus on public opinion and political representation, mass incarceration and the legal system, and data science. Or at least you have come near enough to listen and understand much of what Frank has to say. Knowing God is a life-long participation. Dr. Peter Enns (PhD, Harvard University) is Abram S. Clemens professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University, St. Davids, PA. No Muslim ever imposed Islamic law on others by praying 5 times a day. Thats not to say that understanding the world as-is doesnt matter; it does. Were two thousand years in. Having beliefs was like always clinging tightly to something in the water to keep one afloat, always being afraid of letting go and learning to swim in the sea of faith. 2. These failures in relationships (failure to relate, especially failure to love) are far more damaging than our many failures to understand, our sessions of doubt or even our failures to understand how we know. ), In chapter 5 Learning from the Christian Mystics Benner discusses a knowledge of God that is transrational and contemplative.. And if Peter didnt write it and the author was not present; is it still considered an eyewitness testimony? It is a form of knowing often described as contemplative. But you can deny that my experience reflects actual motion in reality. . In reality you rarely hear about the average Christian,. The universe is a really big place. Are you willing to also consider; Hindu scriptures, Muslim scriptures, Buddhist, scriptures, Taoists scriptures, etc? It is in this context, that Christianity, for me, is a profound disappointment. Sorry for the aimless rambling and thanks again for your post! Now as to whether what the historical eyewitness claims he experienced is a real supernatural phenomenon well that is where faith comes in. Redemption to a broken world? He is a cohost of the popular podcast The Bible for. Ed, these posts are certainly charging you up. This is perhaps another way to look at the sin of certainty. I suspect that leaving the Westminster cocoon could be unsettling, but you are still ensconced cozily in the moderate to liberal Christian cocoon. The rule that clarity is the standard of truth subsequently achieved dominance in the Enlightenment (Bavinck, Reformed Dogmatics, 1 vol edition, 486). I like the fruit of this way of knowingeverything from electricity and medicine to electron-microscopesand radio telescopes. Rather, knowledge of God is described by terms like: immediacy It is into this "cross-pressured" situation that Peter Enns wades with this new book, The . St. Davids, PA 19087-3696 http://www.al-islam.org/tradition-myrobalan-fruit-hadith-al-halila-imam-jafar-al-sadiq/hadith. M.A. http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2015/08/christians-or-non-christians-who-suffer.html "what Genesis says about Adam and the consequences of his actions does not seem to line up with the universal picture that Paul paints in Romans and 1 Corinthians []. There are surely myriad of ways of knowing God In the provIsIons that are avaIlable to each one of us, As one is riding the Starlight Express propelled through time experiencing mAturity, old Age And deAth. I do not think the gospel stands on whether we can read Paul's Adam in the . Of course, it helps that I have absolutely no expectations of him whatsoever. Here's the heart of it: 'Westminster Theological Seminary's board voted to suspend tenured professor Peter Enns last week after a two-year theological debate over his 2005 book, Inspiration and Incarnation. Outside of his academic work Enns is a contributor to HuffPost and Patheos. Which may be revealed when two people have mutually incompatible direct perceptions in these experiences. Catholics see Angels, Mary and Jesus, Protestants usually just see Angels and Jesus, and one Protestant apparently saw a talking Bible in his NDE, while another claims to have been to heaven dozens of times and seen images from everything In Revelation, and Mormons have their own NDE bulletin, Betty Eade had a bestseller about meeting a Mormon Jesus who was not God, universalist NDEs, then there are Hindu and Buddhist visions and NDEs, like seeing a talking Buddhist turtle god, while native Americans have totem animal visions, and New Agers and some other folks claims to have seen Angels, UFOs, aliens of different species. I think that if the objective is to free people from reifying and trusting their own beliefs rather than trusting the living God, invoking the word sin frequently, which is an evangelical habit, is counterproductive. I think the proper locus of religious conviction can help one find meaning in a religion better than help one find a religion. Also try googling sea of faith.. Or the mega church movement, to try and get and sustain even a greater Jesus high. Differing, I believe there are grounds for excluding ones own or other faiths. And two, what does exist mean? Just trust in Him. It seems like deep human contact or contact with God can exist only within the framework of these projects, based on the protocols of the overarching system. It certainly seems that way as we compare the experiences of people across faiths. In regards to ones intelligence, I am reading St Teresa of Avilas Interior Castle right now and in the first parts of it she refers to herself as stupid and if they (the nuns she is writing to) understand what she is saying, it is not herself that is speaking but it is God through her. Im trying to think through/explore this. If we hold to the same manner in which we share any other experience with those around us, we would ge bound to accept this. Hi, Reddit! Try the works of John Hick, former Evangelical who became a fascinating philosopher of religion and sought a common transcendental basis for them all. THIS IS CANCELLED: His main public presentation will be Saturday, February 15, at 8 p.m. in Sydnor Performance Hall, Schewel Hall, University of Lynchburg, drawing from . wouldnt it be more appropriate to say that its possibly an I witness account..the sin of certainty. M Or become a universalist mystic, or a philosophical theist rather than a religious one, and continue to question just what kind of God really exists, and what we can know for sure about who or what God is? Open your eyes to what there is to see, or let Jesus open them for you (Mark 8, by daubing mud) and I theres not that much problem. Dr. Enns resides in Lansdale, PA with his wife Sue, and has three adult children. Many dont understand that the contentions among faiths are fought (and will be won in the end) not on the grounds of being right, but on the grounds of making the world right. By some measure, through Jesus of Nazareth and the ensuing religion of Christianity, a longing has been fulfilled; there has been great participation. In fact, there are now around two billion adherents to the faith. Enns prefers this approach because it supports his view of Adam as proto-Israel (107) and maintains an Israel-centered focus rather than a universal one (106). Frank Schaeffer is an interesting fellow, son of the Apologist Francis Schaeffer, and co-founder with his dad and other prominent Evangelicals in the 1970s of Americas Religious Right and also the Right to Life Movement. The gathered Body of Christ? I also suspect that you and Frank probably share many criticisms of your more conservative Christian pasts. And I learned about the history of all these relatively young fundamentalist Christian colleges founded in the 1920s like WTS, during the fndamentalist-modernist controversy. Culturally, we tend to have a project-based approach toward church life. Over the next twelve months our focus will be "Old and New: An . Peter Enns (PhD, Harvard University) is the Abram S. Clemens Professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University in St. Davids, Pennsylvania. not be confused with experience. Indeed, it is a way of knowing that has been championed as part of the development of culture in the Western tradition, but to pigeon hole the method as somehow distinctively Western is to lose something about its universality in a universe that significantly appears to exhibit fundamental uniformity. Honestly and looking ahead, my mind is more centered on the significance of the sixth extinction, climate change, the forth-coming dissipation of petroleum energy, a huge human population, limited supply of fresh water for all, and need for compassion for and collaboration with others to existentially address all this. There is none for 11 Peter, a writing a majority of critical scholarship places at some point in the 2nd century long after Peters death (Wikipedias page on it is a decent starting point showing the various arguments). I find much of the tradition of Christianity over the last 2,000 yearsand most acutely in the generations of my life in Americato have failed what I consider to be the best centerings of the apocalyptic hope of Jesus of Nazareth. Were two thousand years in. perhaps the matter of knowing God is based on ones necessity to survive. Bringing people together seems easier when their differences are not discussed. We dont know how to break down the ideologies of our false identities or how to welcome others with conflicting ideologies or identities. The universal and self-evident problem of death 2: The universal . ". I am not embarrassed by it at all. As Read Post The Evangelical Mind February 5, 2013 Category: General Tags: Doubt, Peter Enns, The Mind, The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind, Theology, Wisdom Great Value. Which then opens up the question of what reality it what knowing we are engaged in. darkness, a vulnerable faith, and the normal Christian life, Spirituality and the Awakening Self: The Sacred Journey of Transformation, http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2015/08/christians-or-non-christians-who-suffer.html, http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2016/01/gods-mixed-messages-youth-pastor-killed.html, http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2015/03/on-recovering-from-alcoholism-drug.html, http://infidels.org/library/modern/ed_babinski/experience.html, http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2015/01/leaving-ministry-left-ministry-polls.html, http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/cruz-any-president-who-doesnt-begin-every-day-his-knees-isnt-fit-be-commander-chief-nation, http://www.al-islam.org/tradition-myrobalan-fruit-hadith-al-halila-imam-jafar-al-sadiq/hadith. From this, I have a question for you; isnt it also completely reasonable (and rational) to look at the fruits of other peoples experience to see that their belief and faith are grounded in the truth? Israelite history; Old Testament and ancient Near East; Old Testament theology; biblical theology; wisdom literature; Second Temple Judaism and the New Testament. Pseudo-Solomon and His Scripture: Biblical Interpretation in the Wisdom of Solomon,, The Contribution of Ecclesiastes to Biblical Theology,. Westminster Theological Seminary If there is still to be a link to truth there at all. Too much struggle is maladaptive. Youve concisely and clearly explained the way I understand my faith and conviction in the existence of God. In this episode of The Bible for Normal People, Daniel Kirk joins Pete and Jared to explain the major themes in the book of Romans, why the Romans Road view of salvation is insufficient, and how a focus on God's righteousness through Jesus Christ shaped Paul's vision of harmony between Jews and Gentiles. If yes, then how are we to treat the writings from the same period by men such as Josephus or Pliny. . (edited with Chris Wlezien). In The Sin of Certainty: Why God Desires Our Trust More than our "Correct" Beliefs, Enns argues that certainty (especially the theological variety) is inappropriate, dangerous and unbiblical. 800 spiritually empty words. We're raising 50k for our campaign. One of the things Ive yet to see in Dr Enns and other Evangelicals take up of evolution is a robust address of its implications to thinking. You just need to go a little further, Peter. Peter Enns. 2020 Peter Danner. In addition, he late dates the Exodus in the mid . Evidence used that way is a foundationalist dead end, but thats not the only way of interpreting Experience, of which scientific experiments are one kind. Then once that person starts walking with God God (should) will reveal the truth to them. Now one can doubt that the man, Peter ever lived, but there are extra-biblical references to him as being the head of the church. Specifically on love as a way of knowing. Depending on how you interpret Gods word, I hope He is not good to it in the sense of damning nonbelievers to an eternity of torment. But as for the title, in the publishing world, titles are meant to be succinct and attract attention (which obviously worked).The book explains what I mean. Id suggest if participation, longing, , and immediacy are ways of knowing God, that they would more need to be means of recursively traversing an infinite regress of fractal complexity than means of simply and linearly knowing a static being. Find it on Amazon: http://amzn.to/19X9WC7Find it at CBD: http://bit.ly/1dnBcesPeter Enns discusses the inerrancy of the Bible as an often contentious topic. A few years ago David Benners Spirituality and the Awakening Self: The Sacred Journey of Transformationwas very helpful in pushing me to look at the God question differently at a time when I was ready to hear it. better bring your own redemption when you come in being with another person expressing love in ones flesh. Enns-FR.jpg. And for doing it at Westminster Theological Seminary, just as Paul Seely did. Id rather live today in the western world than at any other time in human history. I have posts on my blog, Scrivenings, about depressions and suicide among Christians, and their gullibility, i.e., religious affinity fraud. If the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ does exist, watch out. Evidence can be internal, which whether or not you rationally elaborate upon or take the direct perceptive route nonetheless still falls into that domain. You can hold your views and that is simply fine (I respect them) but just because you cannot see the reasons for people maintaining a doubting christian faith does not mean you are right and everyone else should take a step further and doubt the whole thing That is an over simplification of the complexity of the christian faith. All this is to say, I am not ready to leave the hope and realism of modernity behind yet, but if I do it wont be atheism. http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2015/01/leaving-ministry-left-ministry-polls.html. There are a variety of reasons (speaking myself) that I believe while having doubt and disparaging my trust in God (Jesus) does not solve the dilemma (my own opinion) but creates more problems ( I was not raised Christian either in fact I did not become a Christian until a few years ago). Posts about pete enns written by Jesse Winn. What of our spiritual experiences then? He argues that the Bible should not be used as a literal "instruction manual but as a model for our spiritual journey," a very liberal take on Christianity. Enns believes that there are many different views of God and that we human beings cannot tell which is the correct ones, and that it is better that we do not know for certain than that we do know for certain. To me there is a sacred goodness in characteristics of the way and Christianitys wins over the centuries are attributable to this. Its generally NOT considered trustworthy; if it was then Bigfoot and alien abductions would be accepted beyond the fringe as accurate descriptions of reality/history. Your explanation, though a bit slippery to grab with my hands, is similar to some of my conclusions, though none have given me their answer. You never know, He might answer you in a marvelous and loving way. None can fully understand or explain His Being however hard he my try. What do you think of people like George Mller? and Ph.D. Harvard University Id suggest there are other qualitative characteristics too. However, as my 5th grade social studies book (circa ~1958) commented on Islam, Muslims converted North Africa at the edge of the sword. JFK probably did not comment much on his Catholicism because at that time there remained a significant amount of anti-Catholic bigotry in our country. He has taught courses at several other institutions including Harvard University, Fuller Theological Seminary, and Princeton Theological Seminary. I have written on Peter Enns before on our blog (see the link in the analysis to Evans' book) but seeing his name again led me to look up Enns and I found he wrote a recent piece on his blog titled "How Can I Trust the Bible . [pp. You made some very good points. As revealed clearly in the scriptures, God is raising up out of this raging cauldron of sin pain and suffering adopted sons(and daughters) who will embrace the process of being transformed by their tests and trials into those who will be worthy of ruling and reigning with Him throughout eternity. The way we organize socially as spiritual communities reflects how we organize the project of faith internally. Id take the liberty of summarizing that your belief in God, to the extent you do, is based on faith, not fact. Some have thought it to be evasiveness. Professor. Although, both people and God can be disappointing in ways myself included. 2) Do their beliefs about God or Gods or whatever bring us to harming the other or the world, or bring us to healing and redeeming? I tend to experience *both* God and people in the manner described. Thanks Pete! Perhaps its ones urge for drinking mothers milk when one is first born (who gave you a mother? After writing "Analysis of Rachel Held Evan's Book "Inspired" Part 1: Introduction" yesterday I noticed that Rachel Held Evans sees Peter Enns as a mentor. I have met lifelong atheists who never got high on Jesus in their youth like you or I did. who made you need milk? 2. Maybe even online? I would take as examples of this people such as Jesus and the profound impact on the entire world for the good, that his truth has produced, and by extension, His Apostles and their experience. Concepts of God can propel or retard in this context. April 2015 am Universal-museum Joanneum in Graz (Schild von Steier, Beiheft 8 / Forschungen zur geschichtlichen Landeskunde der Steiermark 79) Archologie in sterreich 1938 1945 Danner Salzburg. An Atheist Evolutionist Asks a Good Question of Dr. Peter Enns October 22, 2012 It seems that Young Earth Creationists are not the only ones who find BioLogos' attempt to "reconcile science and faith" lacking. I do. I count it a great privilege to help students keep their horizons in front of them and come to know God better on their life-journey. Thats why all we need to focus on is the Way; which is your way that youre honestly seeking God. Pete Enns is the Abram S. Clemens Professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University.

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